JENNIFER CARLOS | An Exclusive Interview

An Exclusive Interview
With Jennifer Carlos
By José Jeuland

2Series: Daughters Of God & Refugees camp in the Paris area

Daughters of God:
The daily life of transgender communities in South India

As a French photojournalist of Indian origin, since I was a child, I have been fascinated by their beauty and courage to thwart the expectations of one of the most patriarchal and conservative societies. So I decided to discover their daily life.

Savitha, Sangeena, Sathana, Geetha, Marthula, Rossi, Seethal, Srija, and Pappima are part of transgender communities in Pondicherry and Tamil Nadu: the Thirunangais, those means in Tamil the “daughters of God.” In southern India, this is what they are called, in reference to the Goddess of fertility and chastity, Bahuchara Mata, of whom these people, neither men nor women, would be the descendants, according to the Hindu religion.
India has recognized the existence of the third sex since 2014 and decriminalized homosexuality four years later.

But the daily life of many “Thirunanguais” who offer sexual services in the streets of Pondicherry testifies to a completely different reality.
They are rejected by their own families, mutilated, beaten, raped, and excluded from the labor market. Yet, they survive thanks to begging, prostitution, and the bonds of solidarity that unite their community, both feared and venerated, since the Hindu religion lends its powers of blessing, healing, and fertility while rejecting those who dare to assert themselves outside of patriarchal society. These women agreed to let me photograph their daily lives for six months, between rites of passage, prostitution, begging, and hope for a better life.”

Jennifer Carlos

Jennifer Carlos is a Freelance photojournalist based in Paris. She has graduated in photojournalism from DU Photodocumentary and digital writing from the University of Perpignan and Fine Arts from ENSA Bourges and Nice (La villa Arson).
Alongside this training, she worked for over thirteen years as a social worker. During these experiences, the impact of hospital practice instinctively pushed her to focus on photography and became the main reason for starting her journey in the documentary field. Her work lies between Art and information.

Through her photos, she wishes to tell touching stories on social exclusion and to raise awareness of unspoken territories.
During her photojournalism career, Carlos has worked for Le Monde, published in La Croix et Liberation, L’Oeil de la Photographie, and Vice. She joined the REA agency in 2021.

An Exclusive Interview
With Jennifer Carlos
By José Jeuland

José Jeuland: Dear Jennifer, it’s a pleasure having an interview with you and featuring your fantastic projects. Please introduce yourself; where did you grow up, and what is your background?

Jennifer Carlos: Thank you, José. I’m a 34-year-old French Photojournalist based in Paris. My family is from India; this is where I grew up, although if you look back several generations, there’s some mix of French blood in my roots.My father had a military career in the Air Force and then in defense of the French Republic (France), and because of his position, he traveled a lot. My family settled at my birthplace, but their travel stories fed my desire for travel and my curiosity.
My artistic side comes from my mum. I studied Art in various cities in France, and on the side of my studies,
I have worked as a social worker for mental and psychic disabilities for many years. After art school, I was involved in photography workshops for three years. Then I went back to school for a year in journalism. After that, I got my University Degree in Documentary and Digital Writing, directed by Wilfrid Estève, founder of the Hans Lucas photo agency. Finally, at the end of 2020, I started my career in photojournalism.

José Jeuland: Where did the passion for photography come from? What led you to choose to be a photojournalist?

Jennifer Carlos: I started photography with my father’s analog camera when I was a teenager. During my five years of art school, initially, it was more about painting. But a bit by bit, photography became the medium for me. My work in hospitals led me to discover my interest in documentary photography.
I did shoot some documentaries earlier in my career, but I never displayed or sent out my work. What I love about photography is that it allows me to meet people.

José Jeuland: Do you work as a freelancer or for an agency? What would you consider your specialty?

Jennifer Carlos: My status is ‘an independent photographer,’ and I’m also part of Réa Agency,
a photojournalism agency. I’m specialized in social subjects such as health workers, social exclusion,
and migration.

José Jeuland: What inspiers you?

Jennifer Carlos: Firstly, I like to read a lot. That would be my main inspiration. Works that have inspired me include Camille Millerand’s series on migration- “Bled Runner.” There are many other photographers whose work I admire, including Virginie Nguyen Hoang, and Bettina Pittaluga. I also think Valérie Jouve’s artistic portraits are very inspirational. Another photography series that touched me very much is “Red Ants” by James Oatway.

José Jeuland: “Daughters of God,” can you tell us more about this series? When and where did you start this project? What prompted the desire to capture the Transgender community?

Jennifer Carlos: I was supposed to go to Senegal, but I went to India to visit my grandma. I did not plan to do this series. However, when I was there, I saw the Transgender community and was very interested in doing more. I knew that in India, the status of women in society is not always easy or fair. So I wanted to learn more about the life of transgender women in Indian culture. Since my childhood, I’ve seen these women on the streets and have always been fascinated. Eventually, I worked on the project for six months.

José Jeuland: What are the critical issues that the Transgender community faces in this series?

Jennifer Carlos: There are so many issues. Firstly, they face the paradox between the pure and impure divine,
like many paradoxes present in India. Changing their gender and identity also changes their whole lives, introducing new religious celebrations or sex change anniversaries.
This community is often not recognized by their family, society, and loved ones. They are looking for more acceptance and love. Unfortunately, most of them are rejected by their family and community. I feel that they are always trapped. Before their transformation, they were trapped in their bodies and identities, and now they are trapped by a society that does not offer them a place.
All community members have suffered significant trauma or violence; some develop an impressive capacity for resilience, and others have defensive coping mechanisms.
This work allowed me to better understand Indian traditions and dynamics in general. Especially highlighted was the recognition of a being through marriage and having children, as this was often seen as an individual’s only possible avenue of fulfillment in India.

José Jeuland: Why are they called ‘Daughters of God’? What does this title mean?

Jennifer Carlos: Daughter of God references Bahuchara Mata, the Hindu goddess who is the patron saint of the transgender community. There are different myths regarding the relation of the Goddess and the transgender community, and it is fascinating to read them.

José Jeuland: In some of your images, one can see and feel the intimate moments of these Transgender women. What situations affected, shocked, or moved you the most?

Jennifer Carlos: There were a lot of situations and things that were difficult or intensely emotional.
Violence is everywhere; it could be physical violence or what life has thrust upon them. Even the members of the transgender community who beg to survive are treated poorly by society.
A woman in the community is very beautiful but has two significant scars on her cheeks. (no doubt she had the angel’s smile once). These attackers wanted to mark her for life.
I asked her about these scars, but she didn’t want to tell me about them and even looked shocked when I dared to ask her about them. I was so ashamed at that moment!
At the brothel, a woman had bruises, but the police turned a blind eye and didn’t protect them.
The most shocked me were men’s violence toward the transgender community and the patriarchal desire to dominate and crush women.

It is a culture of war towards women in general and even more towards transgender women.
In my opinion, these transgender women are the greatest victims of this relationship of domination because they cannot have children and give birth, diminishing their value in society even further.
I followed the women on the street some nights. They offer their services on vacant lots or fields on the edges of the road, and there were times they were afraid that I would get too close because many of their customers were drunk and violent and often turned unpleasant.
But some moments moved me the most after seeing the resilience and beauty of these women.
When I interviewed Sheethal Nayak, who founded the association SCHOD – Sahodaran Community Oriented Health Development Society, I learned about her story and desire to help the community. During her studies in engineering, Sheethal started to wonder about her gender identity, and she went to see a doctor who pretended to have to see her again, only to rape her. After telling her parents about how she was questioning her gender identity, they sprayed kerosene on her, intending to set her on fire. Luckily, she escaped before she was harmed. She then decided to create the association after witnessing a male prostitute being beaten by two men who refused to pay for the sexual services he had provided them. Her personal experience with violence and rejection and having witnessed the abuse that the local LGBTQ community faced built up her passion and desire to help others like her.
Another moment that moved me was when I photographed Savitha, a transgender prostitute.
I was very close to Savitha, I remember passing the afternoon with her, and we went back to her room. She stripped, and it was just like a painting; she was so beautiful and calm. Although she was a woman who always had a smile, she carried a deep sadness in her. But at that moment when I photographed her, I felt her relaxed, confident, and at peace.

José Jeuland: India has recognized the existence of the third sex; what does this mean? What about the other countries in the world?

Jennifer Carlos: On April 15, 2014, the Supreme Court of India recognized the existence of a third gender, legally obliging the federal power and the states of the country to grant transgender people and eunuchs the same social rights as the rest of the population. They can be recognized as transgender,
but this changes absolutely nothing for them in India; life is still difficult for them. To find a job is almost impossible.
Before India’s colonization by the British, they had a better place in society and more respect.
To be transgender or homosexual was not allowed during colonial times, and ever since then, they have not regained the respect or place in society that was taken away from them.
Apparently, in the North of India, they get a different respected particular posture than from the South of India.
Other countries recognizing a third gender exist, including Thailand, Indonesia, Nepal, and Bangladesh.

José Jeuland: How do the Thirunangais live?

Jennifer Carlos: They only survive through making an income from prostitution and begging. They are not accepted by society, and they have no rights. So I would like to support them in some way. I’m also interested in finding out more about the lives of the transgender community in the North of India.

José Jeuland: Have you made any friendships?

Jennifer Carlos: Yes, with most of them. As mentioned, I established a strong relationship with one of them called, Savitha. She let me into her personal life as a transgender woman. I owe her many thanks because she played a big part in this project.

José Jeuland: Did you do any other series in India?

Jennifer Carlos: I did various projects in India, like a video on Tibetan refugees.
I also did an experimental fiction video story called Nila, and I did a photo project called ‘Contemplation’ in Himachal Pradesh. I photographed a series on salt production in Tamil Nadu- “Salt Tide,” a series on the brick manufacturing industry in Tamil Nadu, and I still have to edit a few projects. I did some work I’m not showing and others I’m not promoting, but I have passed it on to my agency.

José Jeuland: We also saw your work about the refugees in the Paris area. Can you share more about this series?

Jennifer Carlos: I spent more time in the camps of Aubervillers and camps on the edge of the Canal de l’Ourq.
I went there several times without a camera. It is not always easy to take photos inside the camp. The camps are composed mostly of men from Afghanistan, the middle east, and Africa. It can also turn violent amongst them, so it can be scary.

José Jeuland: How the camps are organized?

Jennifer Carlos: A lot of organizations are strongly involved in supporting them. I’m in touch with a few organizations.
They provide food and tents. The work of the associations is admirable because the authorities spend their time dismantling the camps without the refugees necessarily having another place to go, so it is a never-ending job.
Refugees are mistreated in France, and the rise of fascism and the support of anti-migration policies that we see with the elections testifies that the French target refugees as scapegoats for the state’s problems.

José Jeuland: For how long do the refugees stay in the camps?

Jennifer Carlos: The longest resident I have met stayed in the camp for two years.
Their situation was unique due to the ongoing Covid pandemic; it was more complex and more isolated for them.

José Jeuland: This refugees series, it is still an ongoing project?

Jennifer Carlos: I will be working more with refugees, but not only in Paris. I want to go to Senegal to work on a series named “Les revenants.” It is about people coming back to Senegal after migrating out of the country. Also, with the current situation in Ukraine, I’m thinking of going there or to Poland’s borders to document the refugees leaving the country.

See the full interview article in Lens Magazine Issue #99